Accuracy and paint to barrel match - break off of cocker price decline

[Joe]

for the most part accuracy depends on paint to barrel match.
im also pretty sure you could get an ion (with few upgrades and a good paint to barrel match) as accurate as any cocker (depending on which one, but also probably with some upgrades)

and im not trying to be all "yay the ion is the best gun on the market" because i know it's not. but have you noticed how many people are using mech cockers or even electric ones now days? (besides the karni) people have started to see that other markers are just *** accurate.

[Holy Ghost]

I am not saying trilogys are great, or even that good....frankly i cant stand them.

But, cockers (and Mark's Relic) are the most accuate markers out there (minus trilogys) and you really dont have to upgrade them to get the accuracy.

Chopping balls and short stroking....BAH-HUM-BUG! If you set up the cocker well, you can put your finger in the breach, pull the trigger and barely feel the bolt close on your finger...if you set it up right, you will never break a ball, it may pinch it, but not hard enough to break it even with Evil (a very brittle paint), I have seen it on more then one marker with more then one ball/finger. :)

Now, as for accuracy is all about paint and matching paint to barrel size....that is all a load of BS! I can take a stock or even upgraded Spyder with Evil Paint and a freak kit and insert perfectly matched to the paint and it will still never shoot as accurate as a stock cocker with a stock barrel shooting JT Elite.

This does not just pertain to cockers. Frankly, matching paint to bore sizes doesnt do that much for your accuracy, it really doesnt. Any good quality barrel will do just as good as a freak or pipe or sceptor.

any retorts?

[Gaillen]

-------Thread Hijacking alert--------

As for the cocker price declining even more? Not likely. I think the new models came down in price because they were able to cut out some of the extra little pieces and they made the body milling/creation a bit simpler, thus cutting costs. Do I see them dropping the prices any further? No.

As for the accuracy of the cocker? Bah. Accuracy has everything to do with consistency and nothing to do with the idea of open or closed bolt nor a dependency on the marker itself. Lets take a moment and look at what makes a paintball gun shoot accurately.

First, the volume of air hitting the ball needs to be of consistent velocity, direction and volume. Then we need to make sure that the paint itself is consistently round, even and has a good.... or is at least consistent in what it does have. Then take into account that if the barrel and paint match each other well, you will have the same minute` amount of air escaping past the ball everytime and all the sudden your marker is accurate assuming you can take away the human factor.

Do you need all of these things to make a gun accurate? Hell no. Do you need some of them? yep. If the gun is shooting 288 288 289 287 288 then it's going to be more consistent then any gun shooting 288 297 292 277 282.

But remember the one major rule in paintball..... It's never accurate! And yes I do mean that. What we are shooting for is consistency, to know that the ball is going to go to the same place time after time if you take out the human factor, then you can more easily see how it's not accuracy that counts, but instead Consistency. I would put my MAtrix up against any other marker as far as my ability to shoot where i want the paint to go. But that's neither here nor there.

Does any of this explain marks relic you might ask? hell no. he made a deal with someone down below to make that thing run as well and as amazingly consistent as it does.

My two cents.

Erik

[Joe]

But, cockers (and Mark's Relic) are the most accuate markers out there (minus trilogys) and you really dont have to upgrade them to get the accuracy.
unless its a cocker that gets +/- 0 then its going to be pretty much the same as any other gun with similar consistancy. cockers closes bolt accuracy is a myth. a closed bolt gun is no more accurate than open. (like erik said)


Now, as for accuracy is all about paint and matching paint to barrel size....that is all a load of BS! I can take a stock or even upgraded Spyder with Evil Paint and a freak kit and insert perfectly matched to the paint and it will still never shoot as accurate as a stock cocker with a stock barrel shooting JT Elite.

now this is kind of weird that you gave this situation because i used to play at a homemade feild by my house and almost every one would have jt elite paint (used to be the cheapest at scheels) and i had a stock 04 cocker for a while. yes i probably chopped a few times during the day but it wasnt a big deal. accuracy was kind of yeah its ok but not the best. i also had a probelm with balls rolling out of the barrel. (paint was too small) i have a friend that has an electric spyder that also had jt elite (yes i know, not evil) with a teardrop barrel. he would rarely chop, but given that its still a spyder may have had a few problems but never because of chopping ball breakage. i dont know what im getting at here because i cant prove how accurate his spyder was compared to my cocker but im sure it was very similar.

This does not just pertain to cockers. Frankly, matching paint to bore sizes doesnt do that much for your accuracy, it really doesnt. Any good quality barrel will do just as good as a freak or pipe or sceptor.

i partially agree with this one. i never got a barrel kit or even an aftermarket barrel for my ion. almost the only place i was using it was bubbas and the only paint i was using was (ah crap i forgot. blaze?) bubbas paint and it worked really good with my gun. i could shoot ball on ball with a 300 dollar gun so i wasnt complaining. now im just throwing this one out there, not an example of what i would do or anything. say you're going to a tournament and it starts raining. when its raining all the balls are going to expand a lot. so you're playing and all you can do is brake balls and spray paint at your opponent. you could go switch barrels but all you did was buy one high quality barrel which happend to be .689 or so.

but yes i know that was little far fetched. if i were to get barrel i'd probably just get a big bored ultralight or somthing. sorry for the errors and such im tired and am sick

[Holy Ghost]

Well, ok, I am done with this one, I gave my opinion and so has everyone else....Seems that the only real thing that is not disputed and has proven to be fact is that Mark has sold his soul/made a deal with the devil to give his the most un-Godly accurate, all be it SLOW shooting, marker known to MAN!!

[elliot]

The thing that made barrel kits so popular were cockers and other guns with ****ty ball detents. A proper match of bore was needed to keep balls from rolling down the barrel. With shockers, intimidators, and all dye guns, you can get away with using a .693 barrel every day of play. Not only will it not affect your accuracy but it will shoot through barrel breaks better.

Another factor of course is consistency. Your gun will never be accurate if your pressure is jumping all over the place. It's common sense...if you gun spikes from 260 to 300, that is going to make your ball go that much further.

Paint? Of course paint matters. Think about this for a moment. For those of you who play golf or have ever watched it on tv, why do you think people slice? Because of the dimples on the ball. When a golfer puts spin on the ball, the air around it during flight grabs the dimples and shifts the flight of the ball. It is the same with paint. Poor quality paintballs have more obvious seams and more dimples. Air grabs these imperfections and moves the paint in places you don't want them to. Ever thought about why the flatline is one of the least accurate barrels on the market? For this simple reason, it is putting more spin on the paint, something you don't want.

[Chase]

And all that pertains to the original topic how????:rolleyes:

Oh well, might as well pile on too... Holy Ghost, although most of the time knows his paintball is way off base on this one... And elliot was partially right... bore to paint match is extremely important on a cocker, more so than an open bolt gun, but ball detents on a cocker, crappy or otherwise have nothing to do with it's accuracy... Paint to barrel size is one of the most important things you can do to help accuracy, and as an added bonus, it will increase your shots per tank. I'll explain:

Having a “perfect” ball to bore match accomplishes several things. It will let the ball ride on 2 points of contact (usually the seams) giving it the best chance for ball control. This is also the most efficient use of gas per shot.

If a barrel is too tight, the ball will need more gas to force it out of the barrel at the same speed as the “perfect fit”, and thus a harder force to be moved, increasing the chances of breakage. It will also cause the shell to rub against the sides, creating a spin, and the lift created from said spin will cause a ball to curve out of the barrel, that is assuming the friction doesn't break the paint outright.

If a barrel is too loose, the ball will probably not have a constant contact with even one point as it exits the barrel, causing it to lose velocity, and may even induce spin as well as it “bounces” on it’s way out of the barrel. The gas consumption is also more than the “perfect fit” as some escapes past the ball where the gap is, once again needing more force, and lowering shots per tank. And as long as we are on the off topic of cockers, a barrel that is too large on a closed bolt marker is a killer for accuracy, as it is the barrel that acts as the final holder for the ball before the gas is released, not the detents… if that paintball rolls a little bit down the barrel, your accuracy and any hopes of a consistent velocity just went bye bye.


After the bore size, I would look at the finish of the barrel.
A smooth finish will reduce drag on the ball reducing deformation from firing and the potential for random spins. It will also allow the barrel to clear itself much faster from broken paint. Finally, a smooth finish will allow the gas to go down the barrel with less turbulence. this is why it is important to clean your barrels regularly. Dirt will scratch the finish, and the general build up of gelitan over time will take that smooth finish away too...

The third most important thing for barrel accuracy is the porting. The purpose of porting is to release the gas pressure behind the ball so that the turbulent gases exiting the barrel will not catch on the seam and knock it off track. In order to do that you need sufficient porting. However, some manufacturers seem to space their porting farther and farther back. This reduces the “effective length” of the barrel. This means you need more gas to fire a ball at the same velocity.
The optimum length is the length that allows the ball to get to the maximum allowed field velocity with the least amount of gas (read minimum impact to the ball). It has been long established that 9-10 inches is all that is necessary to accelerate a paintball to 300 feet per second with the least amount of gas.

The next thing to check on a barrel is the crown. This is the tip of the barrel where the ball exits. The crown should have a very smooth even edge with the bore on center. If the edge is uneven or the bore is off center (one barrel wall is thicker than the other) then the barrel will release the paintball unevenly, giving it a better chance for a spin.

The last thing to keep in mind for accuracy is the most obvious and that is the breech of the barrel (the end where the ball enters). The breech should have a smooth entrance cone or preferably a curve. This will guide the ball into the barrel without nicking the edge or putting a spin on it. The breech should also be in the center of the barrel so that the ball doesn’t hit the rim upon entering the barrel.

As for paint? That's a whole different rant :cool:

Hope that helps for those who are interested…
:D

And as for Mark... I made him an offer he couldn't refuse :eek:

[TOAG]

ha ha wow, cocker price decline? possibly, for those of us who would like to own an autococker for a cheaper price, aloowing more to own one. but anyways... im going to have to agree that paint to barrel match is pretty important, for reasons, that have already been said. and as for slicing the golf ball? i do it because i have a "power grip" to add about 20 yards to the game even if it is off to the right or an occasional left hook, grip too hard, swing to hard, it happens, or, i just suck. who knows. anywyas... i forgot everything else that was said, oh jt elite, that stuff was amazing back in the day of the tippy and all the guys who dind' tknow what a chrono was. amazing.